Friday, October 25, 2013

"Forward Boldly" Radio Show: Discussion of NFP

I’ll be on the “Forward Boldly” radio program tomorrow night, Saturday, Oct. 26, 2013, at 10 pm ET. (7pm “my” time, here in Eastern Oregon), talking about NFP.

Here’s the blurb from the “ForwardBoldly” page:

Fr. John Fisher fills in as host for Christine Niles in this episode, in which he discusses the topic of Natural Family Planning with Dr. Jay Boyd, author of "NFP: Trojan Horse in the Catholic Bedroom?" and Christopher Gawley, author of the article "Heroic Parenthood."

What is the Church's teaching with regard to marriage and children? Do you have questions about NFP? Call the show at (646) 716-4669 with your questions, or add your voice to the chat room at the bottom of the episode page.

You can read my summary of Christopher Gawley’s article on “Heroic Parenthood” here, and the article in its entirety is here, at the Christian Order website.

Also, be sure to check out Christine’s other shows. Here’s the “Forward Boldly” blogtalk radio home page; and you can find a list of archived and up-coming interviews here. To be really “in the loop”, go to the “Forward Boldly” Face Book page, and “like” it. Christine has lots of good info to share, and she interviews many interesting and well-known people, as well as providing other programming.

By the way, among the other shows “Forward Boldly” sponsors is one called “Omnia Instaurare in Christo” (Restoring All Things in Christ), which is hosted by David Rodriguez, brother of Fr. Michael Rodriguez. David Rodriguez described the latest show:

Yesterday's evening edition of Omnia Instaurare in Christo (our internet blog talk show sponsored by Forward Boldly and the St Vincent Ferrer Foundation) was a class on why it is so important for all, priest and faithful, to worship and pray to God at Mass in the same direction, namely turning towards God (facing East). This is one of the first 'complaints' many people have about the Latin Mass and is usually phrased along the lines of "I don't like how the priest gives his back to us." Well, we should all be ready and prepared to respond to this vain objection and this class will do a great to help in this effort.

You can listen right here:


8 comments:

  1. It was truly an interesting show although Dr. Gawley was difficult to hear, at times.
    These people are very brave to stand up to the NFP juggernaut. I thought it particularly profound to ask "If NFP is a good in itself, why do you need reasons (serious, grave or just) to use it?"

    What still needs to be investigated is the effect of NFP marriages on the children themselves. The speakers pointed to an insidious inversion of the ends of marriage by the NFP cultists.
    What does it do to a child to be secondary to the unitive dimension of their parents' marriage?
    NFP leads to fewer siblings: BAD
    NFP permits both parents to work and become materialistic: BAD

    I think both sides will agree that contraceptives objectify women for the benefit of misogynists who wish to use them as toys but has anyone ever considered that the NFP mov't may be part of the feminization of the Church? We always hear that it is about HER body, HER cycles,and the perfection of HER design. The implication is that men, who are ready to go at any time, are by nature flawed. And just try to ask if the phrase "marriage debt" is relevant today. Ask it on an NFP blog and you'll be called a Neanderthal before the end of the day.
    An NFP marriage necessarily puts the woman in charge and children, particularly boys, who grow up in homes where mother wore the pants are often candidates for homosexuality. I've seen it in the NFP homes of my parish but more often than that I find young adults who show absolutely no interest in marriage. One I knew expressed himself so well: "I'd rather have the marriage of my grandparents than my parents." It's hard to make the case that the Church's view of marriage is different from what they see on TV. None of them know anyone who was ever turned down for an annulment and NFP is constantly touted for its effectiveness. Add to this some of the trash and gnosticism coming from those peddling Theology of the Body it's easy to see why the young are so cynical.

    Dave

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  2. I'm going to be cleaning earl grey tea off my keyboard for hours, I laughed so hard.
    We had to go thru mandatory NFP training prior to marriage run by a husband and wife. I got to know them a little better when we were in their parish for two years.

    The poor man, he never got to say anything and his wife never passed up an opportunity to talk about how NFP enriched their lives. He just stood there and nodded. I think he really enjoyed his time away from his wife and going to games with my husband. Neither their son nor their daughter ever expressed any interest in marriage. The daughter got pregnant from a guy much older than her at college and the son works part time as a hair dresser. (nobody talks much about him. He was never seen with his dad and we always wondered.)

    Helen Thompson

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  3. LOL! I have thought similarly about the fact that the wife sort of calls the shots with NFP, and all the implications of that, but I have never heard anyone actually say it out loud (or in writing)!

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  4. http://tinyurl.com/l6mowqy

    When I took my first NFP course, it wasn't by choice and I was a recent convert. I was engaged and was convinced it was just something you had to do in order to get a church wedding. At least, I'd hear some good "Rhythm" jokes. Ironically, I took to it more readily than most of my cradle Catholic peers.

    I knew very little about moral philosophy and theology at the time. Coming from a protestant background (I just called myself christian then) I was open to fuzzy-touchy-feely-thinking and reasoning from non sequiturs. It wouldn't be until I started reading good material, that my thoughts began to change. From Frank Sheed's books (which were just a very accessible watered-down Thomism) I came to see that Catholic theology was a very precise Science that operated with the precision of mathematics or physics. I struggled to square NFP arguments into the pattern of thinking I was acquiring and couldn't. Sure, I could see how contraception was intrinsically evil and NFP was neutral but the arguments in favor using it seemed like they were designed to appeal more toward hippies than theologians, Catholic theologians.
    No one could tell me why this kind of marriage was better. No one could explain how it improved communications. What did couples talk about 100yrs ago and why did they stay together?
    Some would suggest that it was justified for serious reasons but in a funny sort of way, it seemed like they had an easier time justifying it for frivolous reasons. I mean, if pregnancy had a good chance of killing me, why would my husband demand that I roll the dice?

    Keep up the good work. To date, most of the critical thinking I've heard on this topic has only come from FSSP priests. http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/01/d-phoenix-raises-the-bar-on-time-and-extent-of-marriage-preparation/

    Diana Hoffman

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  5. Dave, the link between NFP marriages and homosexuality is interesting although in my experience I can only think of one anecdotal case. Perhaps, it is because NFP is so rarely practiced even by feminists or those Catholics with a contraceptive mentality.
    More often, I run into couples who promote NFP but don't use it themselves. In fact, their large families are probably bad advertising towards those they are trying to reach.
    Perhaps, it is the cynicism borne of the NFP cult that is the most dangerous. I listened to this podcast well before the controversy got going over the article in Christian Order: http://www.aotmclub.com/index.asp?PageID=9&EID=29
    It was a debate between an NFP advocate and a traditionalist. Both had six kids and at the end of the debate, the NFPer said: "No, we don't use it. We can't even plan our lunches."
    The traditionalist brought up the topic of cynicism and suggested that we may now have in the Church the LAST Natural Family Planning generation.

    It's really not very relevant to this show but Renew America author Randy Engel has also exposed the link between Planned Parenthood and the early promotion of NFP by Church leaders in the early sixties. I highly recommend it for getting your head around the motives.

    Brian Keith, Sr.

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  6. Christopher West has suggested we could never understand human sexuality until JP2's Theology of the Body because Scholasticism is inadequate. Piffle! TOB is little more than an excuse to use the Faith to talk about sex. It has even been used to justify sodomy.

    In addition to having fewer kids, I have found the NFP parents are always trying to get away from them by taking vacations alone. By contrast, the so-called "providentialists" can't seem to get enough of them.
    I agree with Jay Boyd; we've really gone off the tracks with seeing NFP as the norm rather than a dispensation.
    Full disclosure, a birth anomaly precludes me from knowing either the marital embrace or holy orders so flame away. I prefer to think it makes me objective.

    TK

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  7. I think the consequences of the NFP lifestyle are broader than most modern Catholics are willing to admit. Not "judging" anyone here because I'm convinced that anyone who uses it is trying to be obedient; it's just that their orientation is disordered. We've really gone off the tracks treating a dispensation as the norm and then promoting it like it's the 8th Sacrament or the 11th Commandment.

    My parents were very keen on NFP and I attribute that fact to the fact that neither me nor my sister has ever seriously considered family life. We aren't libertines. She's a daily communicant/me almost. We don't feel like we're sacrificing anything because we aren't giving up anything we desire. But, when you grow up in a family of 4 surrounded by similar sized families (probably contracepting) it has a long term effect on you. We both suffer from materialism more than our parents.

    Dave Haas

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  8. I've read Dr. Boyd's book but I'm blown away by the comments here, the blogtalk show ,and the AOTM debate about living in the last NFP generation. I was a well loved, spoiled at times, only child who never thought her parents' NFP marriage was such a hot role model. Please God, I don't blame them for my certain spinsterhood but I've shown less interest in marriage than my peers who grew up in contracepting households that knew infidelity & divorce and then repeated it in their own marriages. Talk about not learning from someone else's mistakes.
    We need a serious reassessment here.

    Jean P.

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