Well, the Pope made some
comments about “triumphalism”, and there’s quite a bit being said about
that. I’m not really going to add
anything to it, but I want to share a portion of a
post by Mundabor; he sums up “triumphalism” and orthodoxy in a nice little
package here, I think. You can follow
the link to read the whole thing, and I recommend that you have a dose of Mundabor every day!
Here’s what Mundabor
had to say, in part:
 |
| The Church Triumphant |
As an orthodox Catholic, I am “triumphalist” in the sense
commonly used by Protestants, Atheists and Jesuits to belittle my orthodoxy.
I believe that the Church is right, and all (tutti, tous, alle, todos) who are
at variance with the Church are ipso facto wrong. I believe that the Church
has the fullness of the Truth, a fullness which no one else could ever have. I
boast about not only the intrinsic superiority of the Church to every other
group, affiliation, community or sect, but even about the unavoidable victory
of this only Church over every error, every heresy, and every abomination here
on earth, one day. Further, I believe that being a Catholic is a great grace,
and thank God every day that He allowed me, a wretched sinner, the grace of
being born in a Catholic Country, and baptised and confirmed in the One True
Faith. I pray that many others who are now outside of the Only Church may
become part of it, consciously during their life or through Christ's grace in
the last moment before death, because – whatever bad Popes may tell you or
imply to you – outside of the Church there is no salvation. If Christ reigns,
the Church does. If Christ wins, the Church must perforce triumph. If Christ is
the Truth, the Way and the Life, the utter superiority of the Church founded by
Him to every other whatever-it-is must follow.
Why, you will ask, do I believe all this? I believe
all this because I believe in the Risen Lord; a belief without which all of the
above would be pure nonsense and child's tale.
Really, what more is there to be said? Bravo, Mundabor!
Dr. Jay - most the time I have no idea of what the Pope is talking about. That's not good...
ReplyDeleteAdrienne - ha! I agree! I am pretty clueless about what the Pope was actually saying in his remarks about triumphalism. I understood perfectly what Mundabor was saying in that section I posted, though! So if we are perfectly charitable, perhaps we can "assume" that the Pope meant what Mundabor said. It's a stretch, I know, but... ;-)
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Mundabor says about triumphalism, but he would've done better without the disdain and disrespect for the Vicar of Christ.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I don't read him. He seems to go overboard with the way he talks about the Holy Father. Not a good thing...
Delete~Hannah
This Holy Father at this rate is going to start a drinking game, I'm afraid. I'm very confused by Francis...Oh how I wish Francis and Benedict would trade places.
ReplyDeleteWe, in Buenos Aires, we know what he is talking about. And believe me, its better not to know, so keep on praying and keep your attention on the Holy Cross. He is the Pope, nothing less, but nothing more. As when he was our archbishop.
ReplyDeleteNever give up your Hope.
Some of the things he has said, and some of the positions he has taken, exude political correctness. Being one who cannot stand political correctness the Pope's approach, seemingly based on a desire "not to offend anyone" does offend me. In these times, with all of the issues within the Church itself having yet to be addressed we do not need patronizing, vague, less than orthodox, and "mealy mouthed" proclamations from the Pontiff. We need a leader and I fear Francis lacks what it takes to be one.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly my comments relate to his "track record" thus far not merely his difficult to comprehend comments re Triumphalism.
Jerry
I don't always understand him, either...
ReplyDeleteBut I love him...
God bless.
~Hannah
I pray for him.
ReplyDeleteThen we have this interesting story:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-dont-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html
Well, I guess all of those "I believe(s)..." in the Nicene Creed mean nothing?
Yes, Dr. Boyd, let us pray for him.
CKev
This might help....I do wish he would stop talking to newspapers. None of this is ex cathedra, thank God.
ReplyDeletehttp://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.ie/2013/09/is-it-not-ironic-and-to-sides-to-coin.html
If you would like the key to understanding the Holy Father's meaning when he says to guard against the temptation of "triumphalism," you can find it here--and it is not what traditionalists think.
ReplyDelete"[The] temptation of triumphalism [is this:] We want triumph now, without going to the cross, a worldly triumph, a reasonable triumph.
A Church content with being 'well organized and with...everything lovely and efficient,' but which denied the martyrs would be a Church which thought only of triumphs and successes; which did not have Jesus’ rule of triumph through failure. Human failure, the failure of the cross. And this is a temptation to us all.”
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/pope-francis-triumphalism-in-the-church-halts-the-church
What bothers me is how quick fellow traditionalists are to read Pope Francis's remarks in the worst light possible. I don't think we do the Church any favors by this attitude.
Wonder where this will go http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/09/12/priest-celibacy-up-for-discussion-pope-no-2-says/?intcmp=latestnews
ReplyDeleteJerry
Dr. Ed Peters has a few thoughts:
ReplyDeletehttp://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/discussing-the-future-of-celibacy-requires-understanding-the-value-of-continence/
I would caution against enthusiastically endorsing Mundabor. A lot of what he says is good, but considering this latest post--in which he accuses Michael Voris of hypocrisy for refusing to publicly condemn the so-called "heretical" pope (goodness!)--I would hesitate to promote anything he writes.
ReplyDeleteI didn't find Mundabor's tone accusatory with regard to MV. I thought he was very respectful of MV and had some good suggestions for ways CMTV could counter the media frenzy on some of the Pope's remarks.
ReplyDeleteMundabor says the emperor has no clothes. I wouldn't say it quite the way he does, but he almost always has a valid point.
What disturbs me far more is how accusatory and contemptuous Mundabor is of the Vicar of Christ. Calling him "heretical" is beyond the pale; the Pope has thus far said or done nothing to warrant that. Has he done some questionable things (Thursday foot washing, etc.), or made remarks that have easily been twisted by the media? Yes. I agree with Fr. Zuhlsdorf that publicizing all his off-the-cuff remarks isn't necessarily a prudent thing. But to speak with such disdain and contempt for the Holy Father is indefensible--Mundabor goes much farther than Rorate Caeli and some of the other traditionalist blogs, which show far greater respect to the Roman Pontiff. CMTV and The Remnant are similar in that they both wisely refrain from harsh and public accusations of the Holy Father, knowing that it would only breed contempt for the Sacred Office and disparagement of the Papacy.
ReplyDeleteCMTV will never take up Mundabor's suggestions and publicly criticize the Holy Father. For Mundabor to assume that Michael Voris refrains from criticizing because he is afraid of alienating his audience is nonsense. Voris is interested in truth--not in drawing a crowd. That isn't the reason at all. The reason he remains silent is out of charity, reverence, and that all-too-rare virtue found among Catholics today: humility. God bless him.
I didn't come away from Mundabor's post with the sense that he was telling MV to publicly critize the pope; nor did I perceive him as saying that MV is afraid of alienating his audience. It seemed to me that Mundabor acknowledged that MV was doing what he needs to do in light of the visibility and reach of CMTV, and he was offering some ways to counter the way the Pope's off-the-cuff remarkds are reported in the media.
ReplyDelete